Bargaining with God
Reading: Genesis 18:16-33
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You’ve just heard the story.
I have a question for you –
This is more than an academic or theological question, because if God’s mind is made up, there is little point in us praying, especially when we might want to change it!
We can only know whether God changes his mind if we know what his mind (or his will) looked like in the first place.
That’s what makes this incident unique. God spills the beans about his plans before Abraham ever starts praying. In fact it’s only when God reveals his secret that Abram realises the peril that his nephew Lot is about to face, and says in his heart “Hey, that’s not fair!”.
and he says to God “Lord, are you seriously going to wipe out the righteous along with the wicked. Is that really what you intend?”
And Abraham starts whittling God down.
Does God change his mind?
God’s self-talk
This story starts with an extraordinary account of God’s self-talk.
Three men had been visiting Abraham. By the time we get to verse 16 we realise that one of them is the Lord himself.
16 When the men got us to leave they looked towards Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them [= the custom of the day. Walk with your visitors for the first stretch of their onward journey]
17 Then the LORD said “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?
I found these verses a great encouragement this week. Why?
Do you talk to yourself? – I do – my children used to delight in reminding me that it’s the first sign of madness!
- Here, to my delight, I found and example of God talking to himself!
- If it’s OK for Him, it’s OK for me!
More seriously, this verse is remarkable because of what we see the Lord doing here – thinking.
- weighing up the pros and cons before making a call.
- here is God walking alongside Abraham, asking himself “Shall I tell Abraham or not – shall I or shan’t I?” – he seems genuinely undecided.
Why should God bother to take Abraham into his confidence?
- He appears to feel some obligation towards Abraham – and we can see why. Abraham’s nephew, Lot, is living in Sodom and God is thinking of wiping it out.
So what factors might God have taken into account as he decided on whether to reveal all. Start in v18
18 Abraham will become a powerful nation
“So” says God “I’m dealing with a future leader here, a man who carries responsibility for my work on earth”. He needs to know.
18 … All the nations on earth will be blessed through him
“so”, says God “Abraham is going to be my channel of blessing to his community, and to the whole world.” He needs to know.
19 I have chosen him so that he will direct his children and household to keep the way of the Lord
“So”, says God “I have pin-pointed Abraham as the person who is going to be my flagship of how to live in a spiritually toxic society.” He needs to know what’s going to happen.
“So,” concludes God “I’ll tell him.”
And God’s revealed his will to Abraham, so that Abraham could walk more closely with the Lord. Abraham’s spiritual formation will be enhanced if God tells him his thoughts.
Who is God’s flagship in our society in the twenty-first century? We are! The church of Jesus Christ is His way of blessing the community, the society, the businesses, the families of Eastbourne in 2016!
God’s revelation
For some reason the Lord didn’t reveal all this to Lot – even though he was to be in the direct line of the fire of God’s judgement
- maybe practising the presence of God had dropped out of Lot’s daily programme
- My dear friends, whatever methods you use, whatever time you do it, wherever is most appropriate to your schedule – keep in touch with God!
- and it won’t be long before you discover God sharing his secrets with you
I can’t help thinking that it was a consequence of Abraham’s habit of talking to the Lord, of accommodating God in his house, that God opened his heart and revealed his plans to this praying patriarch.
God has decided to tell all – and here it comes:
20 … the LORD said to Abraham, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see
Where did this outcry come from? We’re led to understand that someone, somewhere was pleading for help from inside Sodom. There were victims there crying out God for deliverance and justice and God heard them. … And it wasn’t just a odd half-hearted prayer – this was an ‘outcry’
God’s investigation
21 … I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
This sounds as if God could hardly believe his ears – so He is going to visit and see for himself.
People who were innocent victims of extortion or corruption or violence.
- even today the name of Sodom lives on – the sexual deviation of intercourse with animals is called Sodomy.
22 The men turned away and went towards Sodom, but Abraham remained, standing before the Lord.
And here patriarch Abraham becomes intercessor Abraham. Intercession, the task of asking God (actually pleading with Him)
a. He went to God
23. Then Abraham approached [the Lord]
Later in history we’re going to see how all sort of boundaries were set and hoops that had to be jumped to come into the presence of God
- but here is Abraham taking the initiative – blasting into God’s presence
- Today we have the same access >>>
b. He questioned God
23 … [Abraham] said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?
“Lord there’s something I don’t understand about you here >>>
Will you change your min on account of me?
Principles of intercession:
1. Intercessors live close to the Lord
… close enough to God for God to take us into his confidence
Abraham approached God – became close to Him
God heard the affliction of the victims and took notice of it
Notice the part that difficulty plays in human life
- draws out our powers of endurance and creativity like nothing else
- many of our heroes, like Terry Waite, are ordinary people who faced extraordinary circumstances.
There are many occasions when the Lord ordains difficulty to be used as part of the process of refining his people.
e.g. Esther’s class at school – reading scheme – coloured stickers.
When she’s finding one level easy, she’s put on to the next level.
- does the teacher do that just to make life hard? – just to be nasty? – No!
- she does it to stretch Esther – so her reading can grow / develop to maturity.
When an athlete breaks a personal best, his coach will raise a higher target
- why? to be a masochist? no! – to bring out the best, the optimum performance
- and a wise coach will know when enough is enough
That’s what the Lord is doing here with Abraham.
2. Intercessors don’t let God off the hook
Abraham is facing a difficulty
- He thinks God is inconsistent – gone mad!
- he is questioning God’s own integrity
- It is not the fate of Sodom that is the issue in Abraham’s prayer but the character of God”
- struggling within Abraham are painfully conflicting emotions
Two pieces of powerful evidence of Abraham’s boldness as a prayer
3. God takes notice of intercessors
Here is the language of the eastern street market
- in west we are asked a price and we all pay it
- in the east it is the custom to haggle
- >>> see Philips
Can you just imagine how long it would take to shop in Sainsbury’s if we all shopped the eastern way?!
Yet here is Abraham whittling God down
- “Lord, Will you really destroy the city for the sake of 50 – 45 – 40 – 30 – 20 – 10 …”
We cannot have a relationship with God without, at some time, standing where Abraham stood
- a burden on your heart “Lord I’m in a desperate situation – I can see what is about to happen – Lord it is imperative that you intervene”
Openness of God?
Significant theological debate at present
Theologians who believe in the Openness of God say that, when it comes to prayer like Abraham’s, God’s will [His mind] was not made up until Abraham decided what to pray for. Had Abraham not prayed, God would have wiped the city regardless.
They argue that God cannot fully know the future because we make free-will choices. So, because God lets us make truly free choices, His will cannot be determined until He knows which way we’re going. So the future, in any given situation, is unknown to Him.
Anything less than that restricts our freedom. Open theists ask a big rhetorical question – If God knows what we are going to choose, then how can we be truly free when it is time to making choices?
This has an important bearing on how we pray and even how we approach praying.
- Are you facing a challenge this week? Then I would like to pray for you. Come here at the end of the service and we’ll do that (we may only have a few minutes, but let’s pray)
- Are you hurting over something? Then one of us in the the ministry team would like to pray for you. Come here at the end of the service and we’ll do that (we may only have a few minutes, but let’s pray)
- Has something gone really well, and you want a chance to just thank the Lord or just receive a blessing from Him? Then we’ll pray together. Come here at the end of the service and we’ll do that (we may only have a few minutes, but let’s pray)
Open theists argue that God’s will for this week is not yet determined until He hears what we;re going to pray.
BUT
This raises some problems for us
God is bigger than any mechanism
In the OT their thinking about God was slightly different. More Hebraic. They were quite content to have an argument with God – and that’s what we have here!
Arguing with God is OK
Then in the NT Greek thinking tempted us to describe God by using certain categories. Sovereignty,
This has become even more intense in the twenty-first century because of our mechanistic way of thinking.
Newton discovered unchanging laws which govern the Universe, The Einstein came along and modified some of them, then we had Nicola Tesla, Neils Bohr Alan Turing and so on. All great mathematical Physicists. They have affected out way of thinking about the world enormously!
BUT we have slipped into thinking that we can describe God like we can describe the universe. But He is bigger than all
We just can’t pin God into categories or reduce him to a mechanism – however detailed.
With all of our theological thinking we must hold our ideas with a degree of humility because no system can fully encapsulate all of who God is.
God is bigger than us
We should be concerned about any theology that leaves the deciding factor of God’s will in the hands of us human beings! If God moulds his will to our actions (as Open theism wants me to believe) then He is no longer truly God. (Because I have the upper hand)
We only see the future from our perspective
Cast your mind back to the moment when my phone went off.
I expect some of us will have thought “Ha ha! Ian’s got caught out … like I have sometimes … he’s made a mistake not turning his phone off … LOL!” (entirely justified!)
That was your perception of that moment (and I can run with that)
One more fact …
I set it to go off.
I willed it to happen, but that was my secret and I kept it.
Now you know that secret, your perception of that moment has just changed! “Ian’s playing a game with us to make a point”
There is no question that from where we stand (here and now) God sometimes appears to change his mind – and in response to our praying.
But God has secrets & He’s not going to reveal them (otherwise they wouldn’t be secrets any more)
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children for ever, so that we may follow all the words of this law.
That’s what is playing out with Abraham here!
Back to our big question: Does God change his mind?
That’s what it looks like to us from our vantage point. and He’s content with that. That’s how it’s meant to be.
Does God know everything that’s going to happen? Probably – but that’s his secret … and He’s keeping it.
Let us pray!
So what does this mean for our praying?
Pray urgently, pray persistently, pray intensely, and trust implicitly
Pray for our church! – Especially for our spiritual health and growth!
Pray for our town! … And Go out and do it some good (‘bless it!’)
Pray for your place of work! For your boss or your employees, pray fr its systems and procedures, pray ofr its ethics and morals.
Pray for your friends and contacts – that they may find peac and joy of following Christ
Pray for your family – the people you know best!
Pray for yourself
And somewhere in that mix , God’s will will emerge and His glory will be seen
Isaiah 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
